Scarf-Joint Mock-Up

[Randy Webb]

Is there any reason this wont work? I've done the basic design several times, but always with a straight headstock. Wondering if having the joint on top is a bad thing or if it matters...

[Roosterman]

No reason at all.... should be super strong with all that contact area and the fretboard over the top.

I generally do mine by attaching the sliced of triangle from the top, underneath. It works great, but means if you want to add wings, you gotta add 'em then shape them up - Il be trying your way so I can do all the shaping on the bench before it goes on the geetar!

[Randy Webb]

Yeah, my headstock design is not a block like that, it has some shape.

And instead of wings, I actually made it out of a solid piece. I left the neck/fretboard/headstock (neck portion) all a fraction oversize so I can shape them down by hand.

I'll be adding pics as I go...

[Mark Melchior]

Seems great as long as headstock and neck woods are straight after cutting and glueing. Since you already have to glue the fingerboard on. you might think about making a thin truss rod. What is the neck scale?

[ChickenboneJohn]

I use a scarfed headstock 90% of the time these days - that angle looks a bit shallow tho'. One saw cut and a few minutes with the belt sander and you've got a tight joint. Drive a couple of panels pins or staples into the joint faces and clip them short just to stop the joint from sliding about when you glue up and clamp it.

Nice drawing, but reckon I could make a guitar in the time it took you to draw that!! (30 minutes for a diddley bow, but I reckon I was slowed down by having to talk to camera as I was being filmed).

[Ben]

Nice plans. If you''re worried about the joint being on top...don't. This is how Takamine makes at least some of their necks.

[Randy Webb]

It's what I do for a living (3d animation) so this literally takes me just minutes to do. I am probably as fast doing it this way as doing it on paper...

And it's a heck of a lot quicker to spend 5-10 minutes doing a virtual build to find problems, than rebuilding an actual CBG because something wasn't visualized right or thought out well enough

Randy S. Bretz said:

You must have alot of time on your hands, pretty drawings though.

[Randy Webb]

There is a reason you "old timers" did it all "on paper and in your heads" instead of using a chisel and stone.

There is a reason you use a Dremel to etch your bone and dont do it 100% with chisels.

Theres a reason people use band saws and belt sanders instead of hand tools 100% of the time in builds.

Same reason I mock up ideas in 3d. Penicl and paper is faster and more acurate than stone. For me, 3d is faster than paper. And it's not that I cant draw.... you can see at randywebb.net that I am a gallery represented fine artisit and have many years training in drawing and painting.

Lastly, playing is what I like to do far more than building. So I make sure when I build, that its going to be 100% playable which makes it fun to play.

I think the "too much technology" argument is pretty hypocritical but your entitled to your opinion.

But im glad that you informed me that the "No Rules" thing doesn't actually mean "no rules".....lol

Randy S. Bretz said:

Kind of takes away the whole thing of a box a stick and a string idea of building. Way to high tech, the whole idea behind building homemade instruments is to have fun doing it. Making mistakes is also part of having fun doing it. Yep to high tech for an old creater like me.

Randy S. Bretz said:

well I`ve been building instrument creations for well over 30 years now. Back in the day we didn`t have fancy computers. It was all done on paper and in our heads. Not putting you down or nothing, just ain`t my way to build.

Randy Webb said:

It's what I do for a living (3d animation) so this literally takes me just minutes to do. I am probably as fast doing it this way as doing it on paper...

And it's a heck of a lot quicker to spend 5-10 minutes doing a virtual build to find problems, than rebuilding an actual CBG because something wasn't visualized right or thought out well enough

Randy S. Bretz said:

You must have alot of time on your hands, pretty drawings though.

[Roger Martin]

Ok now, no fighting guys or daddy will take all your toys (tools) away! LOL

[ChickenboneJohn]

Each to his own...for most cigar box guitar building I don't do a drawing, but if there's something unusual or an instrument I've never made before that I'm building, I sometimes make a working drawing...and the drawing is done on computer.

I don't do 3D drawings, but like Randy W, computer drawing is part of my other job, and the computer allows me to do the same job as I would do with a pencil, but quicker and more accurately. For example, I'm making a reso CBG, and the client wants a tenor banjo type neck with specific dimensions - I was able to quickly make the drawing, print a paper template for the neck and use it to select a piece of wood, then stick the pattern on the timber and start cutting and shaping the neckblank.

It does seem like a sledgehammer to crack a nut, but we are all computer users here...so please, no hypocrisy (sorry put I had to look that up with my computer to see how to spell it!) about it being OK to use computer to communicate but not to knock up a sketch. My original flippant comment about making a guitar faster than doing the drawing was brought on by seeing some other guitar sites where people make 'virtual' 3-D rendered models of guitars and you know darned well it's an exercise they do to keep them away from actually making any sawdust.

[Roger Martin]

I can see where the puter pic stuff would be helpful for folks that actually know how to use a computer. I'm not one of those folks .I used to be in love with my computer years ago when I got my 1st one.Over the years though after fighting with my computers over and over I'm over the "love" part.
Having said that I Do envy the guys that can make a computer bow to their wishes and actually work.
Most of the time I have a good idea of what I want to do before I cut the 1st piece of wood.I've developed an eye for what it will be later (most times) so I can skip the "pic concept" part.
Since I try to limit the real working time ( not counting drying time etc) to less then an hour per CBG I dont tend to travel outside the usual areas or I might spend more time on that piece then I meant to.
Its rare now that I experiment much due to the need to get product out and on the wall in my shop so my customers can see and touch them.
I do wish that I had the patience it apparently takes to master the computer.
But as they say " Patience is a virtue, but its not one of mine"

[steve "roots" howard]

I'm from the old school (mainly because i'm old) but i admire people with computer skills. I tend to rebel against new technology therefore I find myself wanting to go back in time instead of moving forward. I admire old craftsmans creativity with old simple tools. But I also realize what century this is and I say use the tools that are available. I also think your graphic posted here is cool. It looks like a flock of cigar boxes flying south.

[Randy Webb]

No hard feelings. It's hard to convey jest in typed words. I put the "lol" at the end to hint that It was partly tongue in cheek.

I too have NO problem saying whats on my mind as you can see. I admire your work a lot and still plan on getting one of your bone slides, I just need to decide on the style...

Differences of opinion, in a forum like this, make us better builders I think. If we all blew clouds up each others butts, it would hinder great building, not help it.

So take that old timer...

Randy S. Bretz said:

Randy I`m sorry if I offended you in any way. Most of the older guys know that I have a tendensy to say what`s on my mind and not think twice before saying it. We all have are own way of building, you have your high tech way and I have my way. To each his own ! I`m not out to make a fortune at creating instruments, I do it cause it brings me pleasure. There`s just something about making a neck from a tree limb with the natural bend in it for the peghead, super strong the natural way. Plus I get to use a chainsaw to do it. I do apologize for any ill words I said to you or hurt feelings you have.